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	<title>Comments on: A Reader Response: Jesus Wasn&#8217;t A Capitalist</title>
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	<link>http://rjmoeller.com/2012/09/a-reader-response-jesus-wasnt-a-capitalist/</link>
	<description>In Defense of &#34;Mere Conservatism&#34;</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:51:14 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Keith Bruzelius</title>
		<link>http://rjmoeller.com/2012/09/a-reader-response-jesus-wasnt-a-capitalist/comment-page-1/#comment-3107</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Bruzelius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 15:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjmoeller.com/?p=4430#comment-3107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I see that Mr. Pentland has done us the service of actually indicating what Conservatives have always known; Socialism is a religion. That is why it totally fails as a political and economic system. Christianity is also not a political and economic system. It is able to be practiced under many systems. 

Christianity and Judaism lay the foundation for Free-Market Capitalism by giving us property which is enshrined in the Law along with the truth that Theft of property is Evil. Free-Market Capitalists understand that a persons body and time are his property and we believe everyone should have the opportunity to use their labor and intellect to better themselves, possibly earning profit and eventually even accumulating wealth, thus being able to be generous towards God, if they are wise. Any system that disallows property, property rights, and even profit from using your property is Evil. Socialism is Evil. Socialism is an Evil system. Christianity is not a system. Christianity is not Evil.

I notice is that Mr. Pentland assumes profit is evil. He is wrong. Jesus even told parables about profit (the talents) and to the one who had ten (after making profit on five) he gave another one. (that the idiot had buried instead of even getting interest for his master) Profit, or increase is one of the many blessings God allows to his people, and to all people since the rain falls on the just and the unjust.

Why does Mr Pentland himself quote OT Deuteronomy and Proverbs, while condemning Mr Moeller for doing so?

The quote from Deut. is wildly out of context. If you read the whole chapter you will see that God says first that there will never be any needy among you, then he states there might be some needy among you, then he gets to since there will never cease to be needy among you. The point is that the outcomes are dependent on the people living out the commands given to them, including property rights, and that the needy will have to work to eat. (gleaning the missed grapes, and the edges of the fields)

The unwise do love money, and wish to hoard the blessings they have from God, and God will take care of them in His own time. The parable of the Wealthy man tearing down his barns to build new bigger ones comes to mind, and yes, he was admonished that he should have been generous with his wealth and we all should heed that warning, but it has nothing to do with capitalism.

The quotes from Proverbs seem to indicate that Mr. Pentland thinks that any profits are theft of food or support from the needy. In fact, profit and increase are what enables the poor and needy to eat. We should all care about justice for the poor. Profit does not take anything away from the poor. Neither the rich or the poor should have an advantage when seeking justice.

The Bible is a practical book, a complex book and an inspired book that is alive with Wisdom and Truth for those wishing to understand God. Seeing how Mr Pentland tries to use it to bash someone is really sad and shows a complete lack of understanding the very things he claims to understand so well.

One last thing. Mr Pentland, Using our Lord&#039;s Name in vain as you do will bring on problems for you that you may wish had never happened. You should repent and seek forgiveness.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see that Mr. Pentland has done us the service of actually indicating what Conservatives have always known; Socialism is a religion. That is why it totally fails as a political and economic system. Christianity is also not a political and economic system. It is able to be practiced under many systems. </p>
<p>Christianity and Judaism lay the foundation for Free-Market Capitalism by giving us property which is enshrined in the Law along with the truth that Theft of property is Evil. Free-Market Capitalists understand that a persons body and time are his property and we believe everyone should have the opportunity to use their labor and intellect to better themselves, possibly earning profit and eventually even accumulating wealth, thus being able to be generous towards God, if they are wise. Any system that disallows property, property rights, and even profit from using your property is Evil. Socialism is Evil. Socialism is an Evil system. Christianity is not a system. Christianity is not Evil.</p>
<p>I notice is that Mr. Pentland assumes profit is evil. He is wrong. Jesus even told parables about profit (the talents) and to the one who had ten (after making profit on five) he gave another one. (that the idiot had buried instead of even getting interest for his master) Profit, or increase is one of the many blessings God allows to his people, and to all people since the rain falls on the just and the unjust.</p>
<p>Why does Mr Pentland himself quote OT Deuteronomy and Proverbs, while condemning Mr Moeller for doing so?</p>
<p>The quote from Deut. is wildly out of context. If you read the whole chapter you will see that God says first that there will never be any needy among you, then he states there might be some needy among you, then he gets to since there will never cease to be needy among you. The point is that the outcomes are dependent on the people living out the commands given to them, including property rights, and that the needy will have to work to eat. (gleaning the missed grapes, and the edges of the fields)</p>
<p>The unwise do love money, and wish to hoard the blessings they have from God, and God will take care of them in His own time. The parable of the Wealthy man tearing down his barns to build new bigger ones comes to mind, and yes, he was admonished that he should have been generous with his wealth and we all should heed that warning, but it has nothing to do with capitalism.</p>
<p>The quotes from Proverbs seem to indicate that Mr. Pentland thinks that any profits are theft of food or support from the needy. In fact, profit and increase are what enables the poor and needy to eat. We should all care about justice for the poor. Profit does not take anything away from the poor. Neither the rich or the poor should have an advantage when seeking justice.</p>
<p>The Bible is a practical book, a complex book and an inspired book that is alive with Wisdom and Truth for those wishing to understand God. Seeing how Mr Pentland tries to use it to bash someone is really sad and shows a complete lack of understanding the very things he claims to understand so well.</p>
<p>One last thing. Mr Pentland, Using our Lord&#8217;s Name in vain as you do will bring on problems for you that you may wish had never happened. You should repent and seek forgiveness.</p>
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		<title>By: B. Myers</title>
		<link>http://rjmoeller.com/2012/09/a-reader-response-jesus-wasnt-a-capitalist/comment-page-1/#comment-3084</link>
		<dc:creator>B. Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2012 05:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjmoeller.com/?p=4430#comment-3084</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jesus was a Jew and as such affirmed the OT-17 &quot;Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.&quot;

Further, he constantly spoke of &quot;the scripture&quot; and was referring to the Jewish Scriptures-aka the OT)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus was a Jew and as such affirmed the OT-17 &#8220;Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.<br />
18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.<br />
19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.&#8221;</p>
<p>Further, he constantly spoke of &#8220;the scripture&#8221; and was referring to the Jewish Scriptures-aka the OT)</p>
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		<title>By: Jake pentland</title>
		<link>http://rjmoeller.com/2012/09/a-reader-response-jesus-wasnt-a-capitalist/comment-page-1/#comment-3080</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake pentland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjmoeller.com/?p=4430#comment-3080</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do not doubt RJ is my intellectual superior. I know he is. But we can learn from anyone.  I hope to engage and at least challenge him in the only way I can. A fist fight:)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not doubt RJ is my intellectual superior. I know he is. But we can learn from anyone.  I hope to engage and at least challenge him in the only way I can. A fist fight:)</p>
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		<title>By: Caleb Petersen</title>
		<link>http://rjmoeller.com/2012/09/a-reader-response-jesus-wasnt-a-capitalist/comment-page-1/#comment-3078</link>
		<dc:creator>Caleb Petersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2012 11:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjmoeller.com/?p=4430#comment-3078</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Most of what Jesus said in the text quoted above refers to sacrifice. Sacrifice as worship to God is a pillar of the Christian faith. Sacrifice needs to be the choice of the person to truly be worship. When the government TAKES money (taxes) and gives it to the needy, it is no longer sacrifice. Therefore what Jesus was talking about can&#039;t be applied for the argument against capitalism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of what Jesus said in the text quoted above refers to sacrifice. Sacrifice as worship to God is a pillar of the Christian faith. Sacrifice needs to be the choice of the person to truly be worship. When the government TAKES money (taxes) and gives it to the needy, it is no longer sacrifice. Therefore what Jesus was talking about can&#8217;t be applied for the argument against capitalism.</p>
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		<title>By: BulletBill</title>
		<link>http://rjmoeller.com/2012/09/a-reader-response-jesus-wasnt-a-capitalist/comment-page-1/#comment-3076</link>
		<dc:creator>BulletBill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2012 06:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjmoeller.com/?p=4430#comment-3076</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some obvious gaps in your Biblical understanding:
1) Creating &quot;Christianity&quot; was not Jesus&#039; purpose in life.  
2) Christianity was never a method of abolishing free enterprise, neither was it intended to. 
3) Christians are taught to set their minds on things above this world. Recognizing the fallen and broken aspects of everything man-made - markets and government included, deters Christians from political panacea dreams, e.g., Sharia, Facism, communal fanaticism.
4) I see no inherent connecting between participating in a free market and worshiping money, remember &quot;Sell your possessions... you will have treasure in heaven&quot;?
5)  Holding on to your own money while asking others to help the sick an needy for you (but in your name) is not what the Bible teaches.
6) Jesus teaches that salvation is impossible for any man, rich or poor, except through Him.  Any difficulty in accepting Christ which results from worldly security and provision is not exclusive to private wealth - government largess hardly makes a man poor. 

If a Christian bases life of off the example of Christ, they ought to be reading the New Testament.  And the Old Testament.  Since Jesus regularly quotes the Old Testament.  The monolithic interpretation of the context-free verses you chose is unconvincing and boring.  What I did find thought-provoking was impressive cynicism and mental acrobatics it must have taken to form the predictable &quot;case closed&quot; attitude your diatribe assumes throughout.  

The argument additionally presumes the following: that religion can be scholastically digested to fit a preconceived world view which can thus be used it to attack other world views whose incredibility are also a foregone conclusion.  If you are actually interested in interpreting the world through a religion&#039;s lens, I recommend you actually act on the presumption that the religion is true rather than beneath you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some obvious gaps in your Biblical understanding:<br />
1) Creating &#8220;Christianity&#8221; was not Jesus&#8217; purpose in life.<br />
2) Christianity was never a method of abolishing free enterprise, neither was it intended to.<br />
3) Christians are taught to set their minds on things above this world. Recognizing the fallen and broken aspects of everything man-made &#8211; markets and government included, deters Christians from political panacea dreams, e.g., Sharia, Facism, communal fanaticism.<br />
4) I see no inherent connecting between participating in a free market and worshiping money, remember &#8220;Sell your possessions&#8230; you will have treasure in heaven&#8221;?<br />
5)  Holding on to your own money while asking others to help the sick an needy for you (but in your name) is not what the Bible teaches.<br />
6) Jesus teaches that salvation is impossible for any man, rich or poor, except through Him.  Any difficulty in accepting Christ which results from worldly security and provision is not exclusive to private wealth &#8211; government largess hardly makes a man poor. </p>
<p>If a Christian bases life of off the example of Christ, they ought to be reading the New Testament.  And the Old Testament.  Since Jesus regularly quotes the Old Testament.  The monolithic interpretation of the context-free verses you chose is unconvincing and boring.  What I did find thought-provoking was impressive cynicism and mental acrobatics it must have taken to form the predictable &#8220;case closed&#8221; attitude your diatribe assumes throughout.  </p>
<p>The argument additionally presumes the following: that religion can be scholastically digested to fit a preconceived world view which can thus be used it to attack other world views whose incredibility are also a foregone conclusion.  If you are actually interested in interpreting the world through a religion&#8217;s lens, I recommend you actually act on the presumption that the religion is true rather than beneath you.</p>
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		<title>By: John W</title>
		<link>http://rjmoeller.com/2012/09/a-reader-response-jesus-wasnt-a-capitalist/comment-page-1/#comment-3075</link>
		<dc:creator>John W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2012 03:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjmoeller.com/?p=4430#comment-3075</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kudos Mr. Pentland! I, as a capitalist Christian, definitely understand your point of view and found your commentary to be highly engaging and well thought out. 

However, I think that one place that you and I agree should completely debunk your entire synopsis. You see, the Christian Church is not, and should not be, a governing body. The entirety of these statements ring loudly and truly to a group of individuals who by their free will share openly and completely with one another (socialism in government is NOT the same thing as a family unit, which is how we describe ourselves). However, isnt it obsurd to assume that Christ&#039;s vision for His family is also his vision for government? If that were true, Christ would not be a socialist, but instead a dictator, since we are many times told to be as slaves to Christ... 

You see, the separation of church and state is not a new idea, it was Christ&#039;s idea. Remember, render to Caesar what is Caesar&#039;s? 

However, I will not write an essay, but I did want to say that your Bible study has really encouraged me in my faith, but didnt do much to challenge my position as a Christian Capitalist... I don&#039;t feel very &quot;body-slammed&quot;. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kudos Mr. Pentland! I, as a capitalist Christian, definitely understand your point of view and found your commentary to be highly engaging and well thought out. </p>
<p>However, I think that one place that you and I agree should completely debunk your entire synopsis. You see, the Christian Church is not, and should not be, a governing body. The entirety of these statements ring loudly and truly to a group of individuals who by their free will share openly and completely with one another (socialism in government is NOT the same thing as a family unit, which is how we describe ourselves). However, isnt it obsurd to assume that Christ&#8217;s vision for His family is also his vision for government? If that were true, Christ would not be a socialist, but instead a dictator, since we are many times told to be as slaves to Christ&#8230; </p>
<p>You see, the separation of church and state is not a new idea, it was Christ&#8217;s idea. Remember, render to Caesar what is Caesar&#8217;s? </p>
<p>However, I will not write an essay, but I did want to say that your Bible study has really encouraged me in my faith, but didnt do much to challenge my position as a Christian Capitalist&#8230; I don&#8217;t feel very &#8220;body-slammed&#8221;. <img src='http://rjmoeller.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://rjmoeller.com/2012/09/a-reader-response-jesus-wasnt-a-capitalist/comment-page-1/#comment-3074</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2012 02:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjmoeller.com/?p=4430#comment-3074</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think RJ also has an undergraduate degree in Finance/Economics. 

RJ is also too modest to say so, but he is an extremely well-read person. I trust his judgment on economics and theology, especially relating to something personal as his own faith.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think RJ also has an undergraduate degree in Finance/Economics. </p>
<p>RJ is also too modest to say so, but he is an extremely well-read person. I trust his judgment on economics and theology, especially relating to something personal as his own faith.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://rjmoeller.com/2012/09/a-reader-response-jesus-wasnt-a-capitalist/comment-page-1/#comment-3073</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2012 02:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjmoeller.com/?p=4430#comment-3073</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is no such thing as &quot;trickle down economics&quot;, Mr. Pentland. And I am going to go with RJ on Christian theology here--he did attend one of the top seminaries in the country.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no such thing as &#8220;trickle down economics&#8221;, Mr. Pentland. And I am going to go with RJ on Christian theology here&#8211;he did attend one of the top seminaries in the country.</p>
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		<title>By: TalonsPoint</title>
		<link>http://rjmoeller.com/2012/09/a-reader-response-jesus-wasnt-a-capitalist/comment-page-1/#comment-3072</link>
		<dc:creator>TalonsPoint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2012 23:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjmoeller.com/?p=4430#comment-3072</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr Pentland confuses usury with profit. The wage earner exchanges his/her time for what he/she deems a profitable exchange. The Apostle Paul was a tent maker with his friends Aquila and Priscilla and there is no scriptural evidence they were selling them at cost ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Pentland confuses usury with profit. The wage earner exchanges his/her time for what he/she deems a profitable exchange. The Apostle Paul was a tent maker with his friends Aquila and Priscilla and there is no scriptural evidence they were selling them at cost <img src='http://rjmoeller.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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